Evaluating childcare and work
Even if you have a culture within your department that makes it easy to take leave, for employees whose prioritize their work, it's hard to get on the same page with someone who is on leave or has reduced working hours. We imagine that there may be cases where these employees feel the situation is unfair since they have to stay late all the time. If a situation like this arose, how would you handle it?
Additionally, are their different criterion for evaluating employees who are raising children and have to balance their work and private lives compared to employees who work long hours without taking a leave of absence?
Matsuo:First of all, I typically evaluate based on results. Our attitude towards work is based on "LINE STYLE"³ (which serves as a guideline for how we work at LINE), and we use it as the axis of our evaluations.
The company requires employees to take time off, and Article 36 of the Labor Standards Act does so as well, so we don't recommend long overtime hours or senseless devotion to work. Instead, we ask our employees to think about work from the perspective of what they can achieve within an eight-hour workday.
If they're working overtime, it means they have a lot of tasks or their tasks are complex, so we judge the situation from multiple perspectives and rethink the work they're taking on.
Momota:Of course, I'm very grateful that we have employees who prioritize their work and aim to achieve the team's goals, but working long hours has an impact on your health. Regardless of family structure, we strive for working arrangements that allow everyone on our team to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
So if you recommend maintaining a work-life balance to all employees rather than asking those who can work long hours to do so, then there might not be a sense of inequality regarding how long certain members work. We also feel that having clear evaluation standards for "attitude towards work" is an effective way to spread a healthy work-life balance.
Some employees may still be unable to take the first steps towards childcare leave due to concerns about the impact it may have on their evaluations or promotions, but how does leave actually impact their evaluations?
Matsuo:I personally took 15 months of childcare leave, so speaking from my own experience, employees won't be poorly evaluated "because they took childcare leave."
However, when you have a child, you can't just return to your previous working arrangements like nothing happened. So I think it's important to build trust within the office before your child arrives.
I took leave when I was a manager, returned as a regular employee, and then stepped back into a managerial role when a new department was created. I was also working shorter hours, but I was conscious of putting out eight hours' worth of results in a six-hour workday.
If you can demonstrate your value to the company and gain credibility, I think you'll be able to create your ideal no matter what environment you're in.
Since returning to work, Ms. Matsuo has continued to build her career, moving from manager to department head, and finally center head all while juggling childcare. Focusing on building trust and delivering results seems to be the key to managing your career and childcare.
A manager's job is to "figure things out"
From what we've heard, you adjust work for your team members and request cooperation from other departments, so it seems like employees taking childcare leave places quite a burden on managers. How do you perceive that "managerial burden" that accompanies an employee taking a leave of absence for something like childcare?
Momota :Most people think that a manager's job is just to manage, but that same word also means to figure something out to get things done. Our job as managers is to do something about unforeseen situations, so it actually makes me think that it's finally my time to shine!
"Paternity harassment" (where fathers are bullied for taking childcare leave) has become a social issue.
As supervisors who have had employees take paternity leave, what are your thoughts on paternity harassment?
Matsuo:It’s a risk management issue. This just happens to be about childcare leave, but there's no way to know when someone's going to have to take a leave of absence due to sickness or needing to care for a family member. A manager's job is to manage risk so that their department can continue to operate even if someone is suddenly absent.
No leader should ever avoid their own responsibilities and injure the pride of an employee by telling them that the department can't function without them.
Momota :I agree with Ms. Matsuo. I think employees will perform better in an environment where they're able to take childcare leave to watch the growth of their children closely and care for their spouses who may be struggling after giving birth rather than one where they can't take childcare leave and neglect their private lives.
A department where members can work together for many years also leads to department stability, so I think creating an environment where employees can value their private lives is the first step towards that stability.
Matsuo:Companies are public institutions, and are responsible for creating a future for society. By uniting and supporting employees in raising their families, we are creating the future. Raising children isn't done just by parents; it takes an entire "village," including supervisors.
I'm in the same team as Mr. Tanegashima who took leave, but when he showed us pictures of his baby through our LINE group chat while he was on leave, it made me feel like we were indirectly helping raise his child by taking on his work.
If we consider paternity leave in the long-term (such as from the standpoint of an employee's future performance and our responsibility as an institution to create society's future), we can see the significance of departments supporting employees who are raising children.
Reflection after the first employee in their department took paternity leave
After your first experiences with an employee taking paternity leave, is there anything that you wish you had done differently?
Momota :When Mr. Taira came to me to talk about childcare leave, he asked me if he was "allowed to take leave," and the energy surrounding his question was very heavy.
In my team, there still weren't any precedents for people taking childcare leave. So when he asked, I wish that I had spoken to my team and told them that it was fine for fathers to take childcare leave as well.
Matsuo:As a manager, I value understanding the personalities and conditions of my employees, but when I read Mr. Tanegashima's interview and learned that he was prepared for a "small career change" when he returned from childcare leave, I realized that I still have a lot to learn about how they feel.
Because there aren't many precedents for paternity leave, it seems like there's a lot that supervisors have to take into consideration. By building a well of these considerations, we're confident that LINE Fukuoka will become a company that lets employees value childcare and their careers, regardless of gender.
After hearing what our two supervisors had to say in this interview, we were pleasantly surprised by their sincere attitude towards not just their employee's work but also their lives so that they can create organizations that let everyone work without pushing themselves too hard.
We felt like we're more able to openly consult our supervisors about childcare leave or working arrangements, because when everyone can work comfortably, it leads to stability within their department.